Fixes for Kidney problems?

Hey guys,

need some help.

Got a friend who's been using gear for at least 3yrs straight, maybe even 4 or 5. But he stays away from the harsher stuff and uses anywhere from 200mg-600mg per week of goodies. Sometimes its test only 200mg per week, sometimes its test + Eq for a total of 400mg per week or whatever. Once in a while he'll use 3 different injects but thats it. He's hardly ever touched any orals over the years and when he did, it was only for 1-2 mos at a time of dbol.

Long story short, he exercises regularly and tries to eat right. Takes a multivitamin 3x per day, drinks at least 1/2 gallon of water per day, eats normal size meals at least 3x per day. He's been getting his blood work checked every year or so for about 10yrs now.

Of course his LDL (bad cholesterol) has been slightly elevated and his HDL (good cholesterol) has been low for most of that time. Not to mention his triglycerides and blood pressure has been borderline from high normal to high over the past few years. Obviously his LH, FSH, and test levels are pretty much non-existent. (those last 3 are a "given" whenever you stay on gear for over 3 mos at a time)

I'm not sure if he's ever had kidney values checked before -he's checking on his past labs and will LMK- but his new Dr. recently checked them and it doesnt look good. His kidneys are only filtering about 50% of what normal kidneys filter per day.

Has anybody else ever had this problem? What do you think caused it? What did you do to fix it or bring it back close to normal?



~ his stats~

He's between 30-40yrs old, nearly 6' tall, 200lbs, about 10% bodyfat, and has no family history of kidney disease.


So far his Dr. told him to stay off the juice for good, stay away from TV dinners, processed foods and excess salt, and eat more fruits + vegetables. Oh yeah, plus the Dr. seems to think bringing his blood pressure down to the middle of the normal range will be a big help, so he prescribed an ACE inhibitor and wants to recheck his kidneys in 1 month.



What do you guys think? Has this ever happened to anyone? It's a little scary (I would think).


I did some research on side effects caused by steroids, and kidney issues were minimal at best. Especially when staying away from Anadrol and other 17A-Alkalated orals.

He doesn't really want to stop the juice, he loves all the good things it does for you, but then again when your health is in question...

One of the biggest problems that DESTROY our kidneys is over consumption of certain foods(mainly eating too much protei)-some people are more sensitive and therefore their kidneys wont do a good job over time,does he has any history of kidney disease in the family?(thats a big factor also)...as far as supplements,there really arent too many EFFECTIVE supplements that will make a significant difference....yeah,cranberry juice and all the other healthy "kidney herbs supplements"(whatever kidney supplements are over the counter and sell in regular vitamin stores...)-are good to use,but when it comes to a person that is cliniclly with a known kidney disfunction-i would see a GOOD nephrologist to get an opinion better than a family or an internal medicine doctor.
As far as drugs that affect the kidney negative(all the known AAS)-some are a worse some are not(Halotestin is a good example...)-they all do the same negative effect...
bottom line,tell him to look for a good nephrologist. GOOD LUCK.

Mdoc-

thanks for the referral suggestion!

I'll relay the information to him, although money is tight (no insurance either) and most specialists charge an arm and a leg (or a kidney lol) for their services.

As far as too much protein and family history, the answer is a big NO. He was only getting maybe 100g per day in protein from the regular foods he eats (meat, chicken, ham, occasional chinese food) and only took an extra 50g of whey protein on workout days (maybe 3x per week).

**update**

Now the family Dr. wants him to wait 4 mos to recheck his kidney values and do another full chem panel. I guess it takes a while for things to turn around.

Unfortunately since his LH and FSH is nonexistent and his testosterone values are in the toilet, he doesnt feel like a normal man anymore. He understands he has to stay off the juice, plus DHEA, Andro, and/or any other testosterone precursors, but for 4 mos!? I would think he'd want another blood test soon, so the Dr or somebody else could prescribe clomid, hcg, or whatever other product is the "new thing" to raise an aging man's testosterone levels without actually taking testosterone.

Any ideas or suggestions?


Anyone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muscledoc1

One of the biggest problems that DESTROY our kidneys is over consumption of certain foods(mainly eating too much protei)-some people are more sensitive and therefore their kidneys wont do a good job over time,does he has any history of kidney disease in the family?(thats a big factor also)...

i would see a GOOD nephrologist to get an opinion better than a family or an internal medicine doctor.
As far as drugs that affect the kidney negative(all the known AAS)-some are a worse some are not(Halotestin is a good example...)-they all do the same negative effect...
bottom line,tell him to look for a good nephrologist. GOOD LUCK.

---

How was his use of NSAIDs? Ibuprofen can really screw up your kidneys. That, combined with hypertension can be a bad combo. I was taking about 1600 mg of ibuprofen prior to my last blood test and my creatinine came back at 1.6:eek:

What was his creatinine level?

i was havin similar problems when i was runnin tren ace at 75-100mg/ed for almost 6 weeks.pains inside the lower back,could hardly piss,etc... i stopped the tren,got on caber and propecia(for the prostrate)increased my fluids,not just water but pedialyte(good lookin out Niko),cranberry juice and some eastern medicinal herbs for the kidneys.my biggest fear is to be on dialysis for life.i'll take the .25cents solution.a hollow point .38 plus p round t othe cranium.no doubt.just hope the gun don't jam like the 1st 2 times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rocco-x

i was havin similar problems when i was runnin tren ace at 75-100mg/ed for almost 6 weeks.pains inside the lower back,could hardly piss,etc... i stopped the tren,got on caber and propecia(for the prostrate)increased my fluids,not just water but pedialyte(good lookin out Niko),cranberry juice and some eastern medicinal herbs for the kidneys.my biggest fear is to be on dialysis for life.i'll take the .25cents solution.a hollow point .38 plus p round t othe cranium.no doubt.just hope the gun don't jam like the 1st 2 times.

---

Im glad the gun jammed on you twice. I think that's a sign you aint getn out that easy mother fucker LOL. Really im glad your here bro but remind me not to ask you to shoot anyone:p

JK hows your boy doin?

theclap-

Unfortunately that's exactly what I think caused it, abuse of NSAIDS.

He's had back problems for about 20yrs now and he went thru some rough times a few years back. He lost a lot of muscle mass and gained some fat back then which aggravated his back even more. He talked to 2 different doc's -at that time- about what he could use to help with the pain and muscle tightness.

The doc's prescribed a muscle relaxer and told him to use NSAIDS. He specifically asked them how much he should take and if there were any dangers. They both replied "as often as you want, up to 2400mg per day, there's hardly any sides to worry about, you'll be fine"

Can you believe that shit!? They were doctors, they were professionals, he took them at their word and didn't consult anyone else about the possible side effects or bodily damage that could occur. After all, the docs said there's nothing to worry about. :(
So yeah, he took 800mg three times per day for 1-2yrs straight.

Maybe a lawsuit is in order? What do you guys think?



niko-

he's hanging in there, stopped using NSAIDS 99% of the time, and now only uses the ant-acid famotadine when he needs it. Which is like 2x per week instead of 2x per day which he's done for the past 2-3yrs straight.

Due to calorie restriction and the fact he should only eat certain foods he's probably lost 20lbs by now. All his clothes that used to be tight (because of his musculature) are now all loose. He's had to tighten his belt at least 3 notches! He hates it, but he's trying to stick with it.

He's suppose to STOP eating meat since it's the kidney's job to break down the proteins we eat into the smaller amino acids our bodies can use. But he hasn't been able to. Going a day with no meat makes him really hungry, the whey protein + Flax oil shakes aren't doing it.

One more month to go before he has to go back and get rechecked. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.



thanks for the inquiry:)

Yeah 20 years of NSAID abuse could definitely do it... I believe. I'm no nephrologist.

That absolutely blows my mind that the docs told him that. But then if it was twenty years ago... maybe they didn't know. As far as I understand it NSAIDs constrict the afferent renal artery and thereby decrease glomerular filtration rate (GFR). Over time this could not only lead to a buildup in creatinine and blood urea nitrogen (the byproduct of protein metabolism) but a permanent reduction in GFR. I'm not positive on that but from memory... that's what I got.

As far as a lawsuit goes? Who knows, could he really prove that they said that? At the time they said it was there research showing that NSAIDs (when abused) could cause kidney damage? If this thing is going to kill him... or significantly shorten his life, and he has a good case it might be worth it so he has some money to leave to his family. But you also have to consider that he would be dealing with lawyers. It's been my experience that lawyers that are "on your side" screw you as hard as the ones that are against you.

Sorry for the ramble. Just my thoughts.

Good points Mr. Clap-

that first paragraph sounds about right to me. One thing you left out though would be that since the arteries are constricted with NSAID use, the kidneys arent getting 100% of the normal blood flow or oxygen that they're suppose to get. If this happens for too long, parts of the kidney will start to die and yes, GFR will take a huge nosedive because of it.

For clarification, he didnt take 2400mg a day for 20yrs. Some days he would take that much and some days he'd take anywhere from 600-1000mg/day on average. There were even some days when he got lucky and didnt need to take any at all.

But still, continued regular use of NSAIDS at least 3-5 days per week over 20yrs would seriously hurt the kidneys IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theclap

Yeah 20 years of NSAID abuse could definitely do it... I believe. I'm no nephrologist.

That absolutely blows my mind that the docs told him that. But then if it was twenty years ago... maybe they didn't know. As far as I understand it NSAIDs constrict the afferent renal artery and thereby decrease glomerular filtration rate (GFR). Over time this could not only lead to a buildup in creatinine and blood urea nitrogen (the byproduct of protein metabolism) but a permanent reduction in GFR. I'm not positive on that but from memory... that's what I got.

As far as a lawsuit goes? Who knows, could he really prove that they said that? At the time they said it was there research showing that NSAIDs (when abused) could cause kidney damage? If this thing is going to kill him... or significantly shorten his life, and he has a good case it might be worth it so he has some money to leave to his family. But you also have to consider that he would be dealing with lawyers. It's been my experience that lawyers that are "on your side" screw you as hard as the ones that are against you.

Sorry for the ramble. Just my thoughts.

---